Can He Win Her Love After Being Placed In The “FRIENDZONE?”

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(Editor's Note, this letter was written before Doc's death in August, 2020 but still relevant as Doc's principles are timeless).

Hey Doc,

I took an interest in April about nine months ago. To be honest with you, I really suck when it comes to women, and I more or less put myself in the “friend zone” thinking that I could win her over from there. Big mistake. As time went on, I got frustrated with the fact that I wasn’t making any progress with her, but as we grew closer and I got to know her as a person, I fell deeper in love with her. We’ve become each other’s best friend.

A few weeks ago, during one of her this-guy-is-so-complicated diatribes (meaning the guy she was dating was giving her trouble), I asked her if she ever entertained the notion of the two of us dating. She said no, because she thinks of me more like a brother. Normally, I would take that at face value and move on, but here’s the catch: men haven’t really been all that kind to April. Her stepfather abused her when she was younger, and consequently, most of the guys she’s been with have preyed on her low self-esteem. I love her and she knows that I do, but I get the impression that she doesn’t know how to react to a guy that really cares about her. In addition, she used to be best friends with this other guy I know, and she dated him and he broke her heart, so it makes me wonder if she’s hiding feelings for me because she doesn’t want to get hurt again.

Since I met her, I have lost a bunch of weight, thrown away my old stoner clothes, and made some pretty big lifestyle changes. And since I’m beginning to look better, I’ve noticed that April is starting to hold back and censor herself around me instead of being explicitly open about things like she used to. She gets done-up when we hang out, and I haven’t seen her in Sloppy Girl Mode (ponytail, sweatpants, no makeup) in months. She doesn’t protest when I put my arm around her, but we don’t exactly cuddle, either. I want to believe there might be something there, but I wonder if I’m just imagining things.

I wouldn’t be in such a knot over this girl if I didn’t think she was worth it. We tell each other “I love you” on occasion, if that lends any insight as to how close we’ve become, but I really do love her and I have never felt this way about a girl, and I really need any coaching you have to offer. Could April have feelings for me, or am I seeing something that’s not there? Is there anything I can do to find out how she really feels? Is there anything I can do to make her look at me differently? And if she doesn’t have feelings for me, how can I maintain a platonic friendship with someone I feel so strongly for?

I trust that you’ll be honest with me, even if it’s not what I want to hear.

Asher - who has invested so much in her

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Hi Asher,

Thinking you could win April over from the “friend zone” wasn’t a big mistake, it was a HUGE miscalculation. But here’s what I find most curious of all: you read my columns, but you don’t have my book. If you know you suck with women and you like my philosophy, why don’t you invest in the single thing – “The System” -- that can save you a lifetime of anguish when it comes to women?

Now here’s your central problem, Asher. You’re in love with April, and she only sees you as a friend. The most important factor in a relationship is the woman’s Interest Level, and aside from being April’s confidante when it comes to her romantic life, she doesn’t have any interest in you. Now, don’t get me wrong. When she told you that she thinks of you as a brother, it told me that this girl is fabulous. Why? Because she told you up front exactly where you stand with her, and most women don’t do that. Like my cousin Fast Eddie Love from East L.A. says, “She’s going to be a hell of a catch – for somebody else!”

Forget about April’s bad experiences with other guys. The simple fact is that it doesn’t raise her Interest Level in you. Think about it: how does a guy stomping on April’s heart make her like you better? The transition from observation to conclusion doesn’t make any sense. Or like my cousin Rabbi Love says, “My son, your logic is illogical.”

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These other guys haven’t preyed on April’s low self-esteem, Asher. Once they find out what she’s like, they just take advantage of her. Why does she always pick jerks? Because her father was a jerk. By contrast, you’re a nice guy. But it’s a wild leap of faith to believe that because you’re soft and cuddly that it means she’s romantically interested in you, because she’s not.

April knows how to react to guy who cares about her, all right. But if a guy cares about her it doesn’t determine her actions. Her actions are determined by a guy she has high Interest Level in -- ONLY. To you Psych majors, Interest Level isn’t raised by how much a guy cares about a woman, it’s raised by CONFIDENCE, (SELF) CONTROL, and CHALLENGE, the three male strength qualities. You have to get my book, dude, so you can begin to understand how women and relationships operate. What are you waiting for – more torture?

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You think April’s hiding feelings for you? Asher, on the basis of that, I’m going to give you the “Rationalization Of The Year Award.” When you go to the dictionary and look up the word rationalization, your face is there, did you know that? You will grab at any straw to make this thing work with this girl, won’t you? This is disturbing because April’s already told you up front that A) you don’t have a chance with her, and B), you’re like her brother. Guy, when a girl tells you something, believe her – NOW.

You might have made some big changes, but April can’t forget the old you. You might wear new clothes, but April remembers you in your old duds. The reason she’s holding back now is because you told her you wanted to date her, don’t you see that? Know why she doesn’t reciprocate your affection? Because her Interest Level is in the toilet, that’s why.

Is April worth all your mental torment? Of course not. She has ZERO Interest Level in you. And if a girl doesn’t dig you, YOU’RE OUT. Sure she loves you – like she loves her little brother. And of course you two are close – you’re closest friends. You’re a girlfriend to this woman – that’s it.

Are you seeing something that’s not there? BINGO! You finally hit it right on the head, Asher. You’re hallucinating. You’re seeing nothing because there’s nothing there. You already know how April feels. She told you how she feels. She treats you like she feels. What does she have to do, tattoo it on her forehead like a Manson girl? Sadly for you, there’s nothing whatsoever you can do to make her feel differently.

Finally, like the great Doctor Freud once said, “You can’t maintain a platonic relationship with her – it will drive you nuts.” Especially when she invites you to her wedding as the best man.

Remember, guys: unless she likes you, there’s no hope.