Hey Doc,

Most of you’re the questions you get deal with relationships already started. I’m having difficulty with something that never got to that point.

I met Salma, a lovely creature from the Mideast. She’s divorced with two kids. She gave me her phone number, I called a week later and made a date, and it went well. Two days later she texted me, saying I was good company and that she enjoyed the evening. Should I have nailed down the second date right there?

I waited a week to call to set a date for a week later, but she was busy with a family religious celebration. She said “What about meeting mid-week?” I said I was attending a wine tasting, but that she was welcome and we could go to dinner afterwards. She asked about the time and said she would get back to me. (I know it was a “maybe date,” but it was an incoming counteroffer, so I went along.)

On Tuesday Salma texted me that she couldn’t make it. She said she would like to do something another time and I said sure. Should I have called her later and nailed a definite date down then?

The next week I phoned but Salma didn’t pick up. A few hours later she texted me saying she was dining with her son and was sorry to miss my call. I waited another week, called and asked about that weekend. I realize now that this was stupid. I did not wait long enough and give Salma space, as you teach. Anyway, she said she was going out with her girlfriend. I pressured her then to set a date, and she suggested I could come out with her and her friend. I declined and said I’d call some other time when she was less busy. I got off the phone quick. Again, I now think I should have stayed on the phone and set a date for the following week.

I didn’t contact Salma again for two weeks. When I called, she did not pick up. I left a message that I hoped she was well and that I was very busy with work. Doc, should a guy leave a message trying to nail down a specific date via phone or text? I always like to set a date on the phone by actually speaking to the person.

That was over two weeks ago. Salma has not called or texted me since. Should I call her again? Wait? Or cut bait?

Moe - who feels like he messed up

Hi Moe,

No, you shouldn’t have nailed down a second date when Salma called you and told you that she enjoyed your first date. You should have just said “I had a fun time too, thank you very much,” then waited five to nine days before asking her out again. So you did the right thing, pal.

When Salma said that she would call you back to let you know if she could make it to the wine tasting and dinner, you should have withdrawn the offer. Whenever she has to call you back to verify a date, you must withdraw the offer of the date. That’s the rule. Because like my cousin Fast Eddie Love from East L.A. says, “When she has to call you back to verify, it never works out.”

Now let me set you straight on something. What Salma gave you was NOT a counteroffer. A counteroffer is something DEFINITE. What she gave you was nothing, my friend. But when she contacted you and said she would like to do something another time, that’s when you should have nailed down a definite second date.

When you called Salma back the next week, you weren’t pressuring her at all, Moe. You gave this woman plenty of space. And it was good that you declined going out with her and her friend. You don’t want to do any group dates with a woman you don’t even know. Again, you did the right thing when you said you’d call her another time. And it wasn’t up to you to stay on the phone and ask her for another date. SHE should have given you a counteroffer – in other words a DEFINITE date in the future. That’s what you’re missing here.

Then you waited two weeks, and that was too long. You should have only waited one week to call Salma again. But here’s the problem. At this point it was obvious that Salma was not interested in you. If she had been interested, she would have extended a counteroffer of a DEFINITE DATE. So like my Uncle Jethro Love says, “The horse was already out of the barn.”

Why are you telling Salma that you’re busy at work? Telling her that you’re busy doesn’t make her laugh, guy. It doesn’t raise Interest Level. 

Are you trying to prove that you have a life without her? No, a guy should not ask for a date by leaving a phone message or text. The woman has to be LIVE on the other end of the line so that she can respond or counteroffer. 

So you’re right – you’re supposed to actually speak to the person to nail down a date. But again, Salma never counteroffers. Like I said earlier, it means she’s NOT INTERESTED.

No, there’s no point in calling this woman again, Moe. She’s had more than ample opportunity to counteroffer you with definite dates. So you’re out, dude, and it’s adios, baby!

Remember, guys: when she doesn’t counter with a definite date, you don’t have a date.